Working Groups/development/1

= First meeting for Working Group on Open Knowledge in Development =

Details

 * When: Wednesday 22nd July at 1800 GMT / 1900 BST / 2000 CEST
 * Where: #okfn IRC channel on oftc.net. You can either:
 * Connect through your web browser via Mibbit
 * Connect using a standard IRC client
 * Wiki page: http://wiki.okfn.org/wg/development/1

Agenda

 * Purpose of Working Group
 * Inviting new members and making contact with other organisations
 * Possible projects
 * Planning/strategy

Participants

 * Jonathan Gray
 * Rufus Pollock
 * Becky Hogge
 * Simon Parrish
 * Chris Watkins
 * Andrew Lamb
 * John Bywater
 * Francis Bacon
 * Graham Steel
 * Joseph Seddon
 * Constantino Valmaseda
 * Jon Camfield

Summary

 * Introductions
 * Agreed on WG's statement of purpose
 * Project looking at case studies for open knowledge in development
 * Discussion of engaging other individuals/organisations
 * Possible projects
 * Relatively small project focused on getting data and doing something with it
 * Possibly using data that will be published by DFID
 * Allow comments on projects from UK citizens and people who experience their implementation
 * Specific questions/issues:
 * What is UK funding in country x?
 * What are latest projects DFID has approved?
 * How has funding to country X changed over the last Y years?
 * How much spending on sector Y? (e.g. water)
 * Which corrupt governments are receiving budget support?
 * Mash up between budget support and quality of governance
 * Basic graphs showing total breakdown of funding by country and by sector
 * Using visualisations to tell a story
 * Study on impact of open knowledge on development
 * Cf. Uganda anecdote: Opening data up in Uganda made £ received by schools go up from 13% to 80% of allocated budget.
 * We need more studies like this
 * Engaging with NGOs to see what kinds of open knowledge resources would be useful
 * Guidance for making data open
 * Prize for open knowledge in development
 * Specifically for NGOs publishing data?
 * 'Wall of honour'
 * More about reputation and good publicity than, e.g. a cash prize
 * Deliverables in time for OKCon (March 2009)
 * Meetings will take place bimonthly
 * Look into audio for next meeting

Actions

 * ACTION (Graham Steel): Look into audio for next meeting (sorted)
 * ACTION (Jonathan Gray): Arrange next meeting in 2 months time (September 2009)
 * ACTION (Becky Hogge): Start case studies on open knowledge in development
 * ACTION (All): Send any case studies regarding open knowledge in development to open-development list
 * ACTION (Jonathan Gray): Follow up Simon's WG invitations to representatives from:
 * Development Gateway
 * Forum One
 * World Bank
 * USAID
 * Global development Commons
 * ACTION (All): Register open resources related to development on CKAN

IRC Transcript
IRC log will go here

#!irc 20:00:28 	hi all 20:00:36 *	machine_envy (3e03ea51@widget.mibbit.com) has joined #okfn 20:00:36 *	ephidrina has quit (Ping timeout: 480 seconds) 20:00:43 *	Costan (57d90c2b@widget.mibbit.com) has joined #okfn 20:01:00 *	simon_p (4e699a69@widget.mibbit.com) has joined #okfn 20:01:07 	hi all 20:01:24 	hiya 20:01:50 *	johnbywater (516a6849@widget.mibbit.com) has joined #okfn 20:01:54 *	cwg (~chatzilla@59-112-197-75.dynamic.hinet.net) has joined #okfn 20:01:55 	hi 20:01:59 	perhaps we could quickly introduce ourselves for the irc transcript? 20:02:07 	i'm jonathan gray from the open knowledge foundation 20:02:08 	hello 20:02:21 	sure, this is Becky Hogge, also from OKFN 20:02:27 	hi - Simon Parrish from aidinfo 20:02:40 	I'm Chris Watkins (chriswaterguy) from Appropedia 20:02:41 	hello - i'm john bywater from the appropriate software foundation 20:02:49 	I'm Francis Bacon - not from an organisation but I intermittently blog at http://thatsthewaythemoneygoes.blogspot.com/ 20:02:49 	Graham Steel, patient advocate and follower of OKF/OA 20:02:55 	Im Joseph Seddon from Wikimedia UK 20:03:33 	Hi I´m Constantino from "Theory Integration" (it is actually a soon to be social-enterprise but we're still deciding on the name :) 20:03:42 	hi i'm rufus pollock from the open knowledge foundation 20:04:11 	ok and it looks like we've also got a few more people idling 20:04:27 	nice to meet everyone :) 20:04:34 	hello? Andrew Lamb here from Engineers Without Borders UK & Appropedia 20:04:45 	hi andrew :-) 20:04:52 	indeed - thanks to everyone for coming! 20:05:01 	we've got a rough agenda at: http://wiki.okfn.org/wg/development/1 20:05:03 *	joe_seddon is now known as Seddon-wmuk 20:05:37 	i guess the first question, and the first item on the agenda is what people think the working group should aim to achieve 20:05:47 *	mib_zl1s7z (466c45b8@widget.mibbit.com) has joined #okfn 20:05:50 	current purpose is at: 20:05:51 	http://wiki.okfn.org/wg/development/ 20:06:36 	currently i think the main thing is to provide a point of reference for people interested in open knowledge in development 20:07:06 	I like the purpose as stated in wiki......maybe also to share information and raise awareness of innovative information/knowledge related initiatives in development... 20:07:24 	absolutely.. 20:07:24 	+1 on the purpose - I like it 20:07:43 	great! 20:07:47 *	joncamfield (8d9c9964@widget.mibbit.com) has joined #okfn 20:07:52 	In terms of potential projects "Collation of case studies/evidence pertaining to the value of open knowledge in international development " would be a good way to start identifying ourselves as a point of reference 20:08:03 	yep.. 20:08:06 	this is very true 20:08:19 	where could we collate such studies? Is there already a good page on the wiki? 20:08:36 	no i don't think there is... 20:08:45 	i guess for datasets and resources we could use ckan 20:09:13 	is ckan for resources (eg list of case studies) as well as data sets? Some case studies may not be "open" 20:09:14 	perhaps using tag development or opendevelopment 20:09:23 	In terms of purpose, I would also like to know whether there will be any lobbying/campaigning element to the work 20:09:25 	good points. I'd also say: a resource and thinktank for questions about openness in aid and development. 20:09:32 	case studies might be suited to Appropedia 20:09:48 	ok... 20:09:51 	machine_envy: i think ckan is less good for "studies" 20:09:57 	perhaps we should start a page at, e.g. http://wiki.okfn.org/OpenDevelopment 20:10:07 	and point to existing projects, initiatives and suchlike 20:10:29 	and do http://ckan.net/tag/read/development separately... 20:10:36 	I'll be collecting a few of those for an event that we're organisation 20:10:37 	Andrew: agreed, but I'd say Appropedia could be the platform for sharing the case studies. The working group could take the lead in compiling them. 20:10:58 	yeah - whatever helps 20:11:02 	though whichever wiki they're on, they need to be referenced on both. 20:11:16 	sure! 20:11:23 	is anyone interested in taking a lead on this? 20:11:25 <mib_96cwzh>	how might this group grow do you think? 20:11:49 <mib_96cwzh>	relates to aims 20:12:08 	indeed that is next item on agenda 20:12:15 <mib_96cwzh>	aha.. ok 20:12:17 	"Inviting new members and making contact with other organisations " 20:12:23 <machine_envy>	@jwyg I'd be pleased to take a lead on the collation of case studies 20:12:33 	machine_envy: that would be wonderful! 20:12:56 	just to recap: is everyone roughly happy with the purpose of the WG? 20:13:04 <GrahamSteel>	yes 20:13:05 <mib_96cwzh>	yes - very 20:13:07 *	cwg wipes forehead in relief that Becky has stepped up 20:13:15 <machine_envy>	yes 20:13:17 <simon_p>	yes 20:13:22 	yup 20:13:26 <machine_envy>	cwg: i'll be asking for help, don't worry! 20:13:32 	:-) 20:13:35 	great 20:13:39 	of course! will be glad to help 20:13:55 	so next item, is ideas for other people we should invite to the WG 20:13:58 	yes - purpose looks great !! 20:14:00 	should we decide where to put them now, or leave that to Becky? 20:14:40 	from Appropedia's perspective, these case studies are exactly the sort of material that would add value, so we'd want to have them in some form. 20:14:43 	i think the best thing might be for people to send case studies they know to the open-development mailing list 20:15:04 <simon_p>	could we also expand to collate good examples of innovative information/knowledge related initiatives  - or does case studies already include this? (e.g. Ushahidi - which is always referenced, be good to have more like this!)  (ref my point on purpose) 20:15:06 	for now, yes, but a final resting place? 20:15:09 	(not attached - but links) these could then be added to whatever wiki page was deemed appropriate 20:15:23 	i've set up a page at: http://wiki.okfn.org/OpenDevelopment 20:16:03 	but generally i agree with rgrp - that it would be nice to post things to the list 20:16:15 	let's start with things there -- if someone else provdes better it should be trivial to move html/attachments ... 20:16:19 	this is a good way of doing it gradually, and keeping momentum 20:16:21 <Costan>	Yes (answering agreement on targets, soorry for the delay), the open knowledge foundation is new to me. I have a different approach to development, but I don't want to deviate the conversation... 20:17:13 	moving back to the agenda - do people have ideas for other people or organisations we should contact in the first instance? 20:17:36 	i'd be especially interested in speaking to people at institutions who publish (potentially) open data related to development 20:17:47 	attachments - eek. I hope we're not talking about attachments on the wiki(s). not an open way of posting info. 20:18:14 <machine_envy>	jwyg what sort of institutions are you thinking about? 20:18:28 	cwg: most stuff should be html (but I thought people may occasionally wish to attach the text of studies which may be pdf or ...) 20:18:28 	(can move the wiki/attachment convo to a thread) 20:18:32 	ngos, international institutions 20:18:37 	cwg: yes 20:18:55 <mib_96cwzh>	I've a list of about 60 technical support providers in the UK NGO world who might be interested... focusing of course on practical guides etc 20:19:09 <mib_96cwzh>	I'm trying to suggest to them to think more about openness 20:19:13 <simon_p>	I have invited my colleagues who helped organise the DC open development barcamp (from Development gateway,forum one, world bank, USAID - Global development commons) - this will hopefully spread the network to east coast..... 20:19:25 	who are the main organisations producing data on development projects (be that funding, outcomes, ...) 20:19:25 	Some organisations that are active in this include http://betteraid.org/ http://www.cgdev.org/ http://mande.co.uk/ and http://www.oneworldtrust.org/ 20:19:39 	and http://aida.developmentgateway.org/index.do 20:19:48 	brilliant 20:19:53 	thanks for this! 20:20:24 	i guess at the same time we'd like to contact people/orgs who are likely to be relatively active in contributing 20:21:31 	i guess this is another conversation we can continue on list if no-one has any specific ideas they'd like to add now... 20:21:43 	shall we move onto possible projects? 20:21:55 <GrahamSteel>	SPARC®, the Scholarly Publishing and Academic Resources Coalition http://www.arl.org/sparc/ 20:22:16 	good idea graham! 20:22:34 	re: possible projects on the wiki we've currently got: 20:22:34 	# Open knowledge in development prize 20:22:34 	# 20:22:34 	Collating relevant material on CKAN 20:22:34 	# Newspaper article/press release 20:22:34 	# Visualisation project using open data related to development 20:22:34 	# Standards/guidance for publishing development data 20:22:34 	# Collation of case studies/evidence pertaining to the value of open knowledge in international development 20:23:10 	what do people think? 20:23:31 	i think it would be really good to try to think of a really *small* project focused on getting data and doing something with it 20:23:59 	agreed! 20:24:00 	this could be practical data or the transparency data (e.g. what development money is being spent on) 20:24:09 	DfID are going to publish their aid database online soon, we could do something with that 20:24:24 <simon_p>	re: DFID yes with an API 20:24:33 	that would be fantastic 20:24:35 	ok, great. Do we know when this will become available and what exactly will be in it 20:24:44 <simon_p>	'wheredoesukaidgo.org' 20:25:04 <simon_p>	pencilled in for aug 10th apprently 20:25:37 <simon_p>	project data (£, sectors, dates, countries etc.) 20:25:48 	Also perhaps talking with someone at GapMinder.org? They're promoting open dev. data strongly 20:25:51 	Any idea what license DFID is using for their data? (World Bank's license for their data makes their API not very useful) 20:25:52 	I have an FOI about ut: http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/information_in_aries_and_the_pub#incoming-34007 20:25:55 	great, and are there any really specific questions we'd like answered 20:26:22 	joncamfield: indeed. we're very proud to have hans rosling from gapminder on our advisory board! 20:26:35 <GrahamSteel>	re:# Newspaper article/press release http://thesciencebehindit.net/ might be of interest 20:26:36 	jwyg: See how up to date I am! ;) 20:26:45 	e.g. coudl we focus on a particular country or set of countries 20:26:56 	glad to hear about Hans Rosling! 20:27:16 	in particular, what kind of thing do you think would be of interest to a more general community (and journalists ...) 20:27:22 	Re open data for visualizations: USAID data would be public domain. 20:27:22 <GrahamSteel>	yeah - that darn cool (Hans) 20:27:39 	I am in Wash DC, fwiw. I missed the Open Dev unconference unfortunately 20:27:47 <machine_envy>	I think the MSM will show interest if we can relate openness to something a bit more human 20:28:06 <machine_envy>	Can we tell a story about people who have been helped by open data in development yet, or is it still theoretical> 20:28:08 <machine_envy>	? 20:28:25 	machine_envy: I am thinking here more of what we could do with DfID database 20:28:33 <machine_envy>	Oh, I see 20:28:42 	so a transparency angle, plus are there particular countries we could look at 20:28:51 	(machine_envy: but that is a very good question!) 20:28:57 	blue-skying, I think something like "ayiti" (http://www.tigweb.org/tiged/projects/ayiti/) (a resource-scarcity game) that runs with real-world data could be newsworth and exciting, but pretty difficult. 20:29:00 *	johnbywater has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 20:29:01 <simon_p>	i think it would be useful to produce an alternative interface from the DFID website based around top five likley questions from UK citizens 20:29:22 *	cwg_ (~chatzilla@59-112-196-187.dynamic.hinet.net) has joined #okfn 20:29:33 	allow comments on each project - from both uk citizens and people who actually experience their implementation 20:29:45 	both great ideas 20:29:53 <machine_envy>	Is there anything that's likely to be contrversial with the DfID data (cf EU subsidy data and IHT front page)? 20:29:56 	what do we think are the 5 most likely questions 20:30:12 <simon_p>	 e.g. what is UK funding in country x? 20:30:24 <machine_envy>	simon_p: good one 20:30:40 <simon_p>	what are latest projects DFID has approved? 20:31:00 	how has funding to country X changed over the last Y years? 20:31:12 <machine_envy>	is it helping people? 20:31:32 <machine_envy>	(but I guess you can't get the answer to that question from the dataset!) 20:31:36 	:-) 20:32:02 <simon_p>	how much spending on sector Y? (e.g. water) 20:32:23 	quality of governance / corruption in each country 20:32:27 <simon_p>	which corrupt governments are receiving budget support? 20:32:43 	ok, this seems great 20:32:46 <simon_p>	maybe a mash up between budget support and quality of governance/ 20:32:50 <simon_p>	? 20:33:02 	perhaps we could do basic graphs showing total breakdown by country and by sector? 20:33:07 	i think we should jot down are best questions + andeggs idea for commentary 20:33:07 	there are plenty of indicators available from WB it could be mashed with 20:33:43 	http://developer.worldbank.org/ 20:33:55 *	mib_j0qdl3 (42d00dbe@widget.mibbit.com) has joined #okfn 20:34:06 	i think what makes hans roslings visualisations really work is the notion of telling a story with the visualisations - which then makes it more intuitive when going to play around with the visualisations yourself.. 20:34:35 	(pardon my repetition... small typing box..) 20:35:06 <cwg_>	This is great - but World Bank's terms of use don't allow mashups (and I don't know about DFID - hence my suggestion to look at USAID). I'd like us to give them a really hard time about this :-). 20:35:12 	a good story that crosses borders to any donor-nation would be tax% -> impact 20:35:40 	cwg_: re: "World Bank's terms of use don't allow mashups" do you have a url? 20:35:46 <mib_j0qdl3>	just watching TED now...linked data - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM6XIICm_qo&NR=1 20:36:02 	US specific for this would be something similar to http://www.wallstats.com/deathandtaxes/ 20:36:24 *	cwg has quit (Ping timeout: 480 seconds) 20:36:57 	interesting.. 20:37:10 	cwg: where is usaid data? 20:37:27 	jwyg: here's info for general worldbank data http://www.ckan.net/package/read/world-bank 20:37:34 	with terms of use which are very restrictive ... 20:37:52 	nods 20:37:57 	anyway let's not get to sidetracked: I think we should get back to deciding what our 2-3 main projects are rigth now 20:38:03 	agreed! :-) 20:38:17 	1. do something with DfID or other available data set to look at where aid is going 20:38:26 	(and answer 5 interesting questions) 20:38:39 	i think becky's question about what open knowledge/data in development is very important - perhaps we could do something on this? 20:38:57 	*sorry: what impact it has 20:39:10 <cwg_>	jwyg: looking for that url re World Bank - came up on Twitter conversations about OpenDevCamp. 20:39:24 	and what kind of knowledge is valuable for what kinds of purposes 20:39:24 	was this question about impact of open knowledge or the imapct of development generally (which obviously requires data) 20:39:35 	impact of open knowledge on development 20:39:39 	e.g. in education 20:39:51 <cwg_>	jwyg: Haven't looked for USAID data - but they should have enormous amounts and its US Fed, so it'll be public domain. 20:40:03 	in terms of helping NGOs make decisions 20:40:05 	etc 20:40:37 <GrahamSteel>	 Threw this over to John Wilbanks who's on the stage in the British Library via FriendFeed Q. from the OKFN session that I would like to put to John and post back "Can we tell a story about people who have been helped by open data in development yet, or is it still theoretical" 20:40:39 *	cwg_ just noticed that rgrp already answered the World Bank terms of use question. 20:40:46 <simon_p>	"impact of open knowledge on development" - i like this idea 20:41:09 <simon_p>	the same story about Uganda is always told 20:41:18 <mib_j0qdl3>	are you aware of AIDA-http://aida.developmentgateway.org/index.do 20:42:18 <simon_p>	opening data up in Uganda made £ received by schools go up from 13% to 80% of allocated budget 20:42:39 	amazing! 20:42:41 <simon_p>	....we need more stories like this 20:42:43 	exactly 20:42:47 <mib_j0qdl3>	AiDA has automated data harvesting WB etc and screen scraping from multiple sources-Gates etc 20:43:11 	also - in things like engaging with NGOs working on education, to see what kinds of textbook are in demand... 20:43:58 	and touching base with ICT4DEV crowd and trying to make resources appropriate to technology etc. 20:44:35 	(e.g. textbooks that are not too bandwidth intensive) 20:44:54 <machine_envy>	simon_p - I'll ping you for more details on the Uganda story when I'm compiling case studies 20:45:46 *	simon_p has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 20:46:20 *	simon_p (4e699a69@widget.mibbit.com) has joined #okfn 20:46:20 	machine_envy: i wonder if we could combine case studies with studies of the need in different areas? 20:47:02 	i.e. looking existing projects as well as looking at where future projects could be helpful, or where there is demand? 20:48:49 	Poverty Action Lab publish data on the results of randomized trials of different programmes: http://www.povertyactionlab.org/JPALdata/ They claim on homepage "To date, our evidence has helped improve the lives of at least 30 million people" 20:49:03 	amazing 20:50:21 	alright 20:50:56 *	simon_p has quit 20:51:00 	re: projects we've got "1. do something with DfID or other available data set to look at where aid is going (and answer 5 interesting questions)" 20:51:08 	I'm reading Ha-Joon Chang's "The Myth of Capitalism" which devotes a few chapters to the role of IP regulation, if I come across any good openness stories there I'll share with the mailing list 20:51:13 *	simon_p (4e699a69@widget.mibbit.com) has joined #okfn 20:51:54 	2. case studies on open knowledge in development 20:52:19 	joncamfield: fantastic! 20:53:10 	also i look forward to seeing what comes out of: 20:53:11 	http://lists.okfn.org/pipermail/open-development/2009-July/000003.html 20:53:14 	3. I'd also like to pursue # Standards/guidance for publishing development data 20:53:24 	definitely 20:53:47 	e.g. looking around many of the links people have provided (including those at WB) it seems most of that data isn't explicitly open for example ... 20:54:00 	nods 20:54:04 	the biggest repository is AIDA, their schema is here: http://aida.developmentgateway.org/index.do 20:54:05 	which is a pretty obvious basic guideline for people publishing dev data 20:54:43 	andeggs: t&c state: "The Development Gateway Foundation Portal and the Development Gateway Resources Portal contain information, text, graphics, software, and other content (the "Site Content"). The Site Content is protected under the copyright laws of the United States and of other countries. Unless indicated otherwise on the Site Content, we ask that you contact us at partners@developmentgateway.org for permission for any reproduction, m 20:54:51 *	swampcottage (c4cad16c@widget.mibbit.com) has joined #okfn 20:55:20 	as chris pointed out usaid's data looks good: 20:55:21 	http://ckan.net/package/read/usaid-eads 20:55:31 	(just added to ckan) 20:56:31 	what do people think about a prize for open knowledge in development? 20:56:44 <mib_96cwzh>	really like the idea 20:56:54 <mib_j0qdl3>	for #3, about the # Standards/guidance for publishing development data 20:57:01 *	Costan has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 20:57:08 <simon_p>	me too. although I floated this in DC at barcamp and a sense of competition fatigue 20:57:17 	okay :-) 20:57:31 	or multiple prizes - best in show, cleanest data, most impressive organizational change 20:57:39 <mib_96cwzh>	yeah - lots of competitions in the states, not so many here 20:57:43 	a prize doesn't have to have a huge competition process 20:57:48 <mib_j0qdl3>	look at http://xml.coverpages.org/dml.html--IDML for standards/guidance for publishing development data 20:57:54 <mib_96cwzh>	I would like to see it applied to what NGOs know 20:57:59 	agreed 20:58:02 	that would be great 20:58:05 <mib_96cwzh>	sharing it with others etc 20:58:41 	so perhaps a prize aimed specifically at NGOs 20:59:01 	also, a set of anti-prizes? (most out-of-date data, scanned images of tables" 20:59:09 <mib_96cwzh>	hehe 20:59:10 	uh oh :-) 20:59:15 <cwg_>	rgrp: Standards/guidance, definitely. 20:59:19 	(maytbe that's a horrible idea) 20:59:36 <simon_p>	yes to standards from me too 20:59:39 	it could be a bit mean! 21:00:07 	re: prize, does anyone have any ideas where we might be able to look for sponsorship? 21:00:15 <cwg_>	jwyg: prizes are great. multiple prizes and a wooden spoon even better. 21:00:47 	there are several options: 21:01:32 <simon_p>	maybe we don;t need prizes - just a 'wall of honour' for open transparent orgs in development 21:02:03 <simon_p>	Publish What You Fund might be able to make some noise about it 21:02:10 	There are always degrees of openness - they may say what they are funding but still not release negative evaluations 21:02:11 	simon_p: ok brilliant 21:02:25 <cwg_>	jwyg: considering the prize-winners may be large NGOs or agencies, I wouldn't worry so much about prize money. As Simon says. 21:02:35 <GrahamSteel>	I have a big box of PLoS swag to give away if this is of any use. 21:02:44 	cwg_: ok thats true 21:02:58 <mib_j0qdl3>	yes...i like the idea of a "wall of honor"-or a listing maintained by a watchgroup 21:03:06 <mib_j0qdl3>	name & shame so to speak 21:03:33 	true! this is a nice idea 21:03:44 	alright so we're approaching an hour... 21:03:53 <mib_j0qdl3>	the idea is to make it "cool" to publish your data-make it the in thing 21:04:04 	there's one last item on the agenda: which is planning/strategy... 21:04:54 	mib_j0qdl3: this is true! 21:05:40 	i guess here it would be nice to give the working group (and anyone else interested!) a rough timeframe and some objectives to meet 21:06:06 <GrahamSteel>	yups 21:06:20 	i think it would be nice if we could present what the group had done by next march at okcon 21:06:50 	it would also be nice to keep a bit of pace.. 21:06:56 <GrahamSteel>	lol 21:07:09 	how often would people like to have meetings? 21:07:29 <GrahamSteel>	6-8 weeks 21:07:32 	bi-monthly? quarterly? 21:07:55 <simon_p>	bi monthly works for me.... 21:08:02 	ok sure... 21:08:15 <mib_j0qdl3>	can we have a webex meeting...audio 21:08:17 *	gyory (42d00dbe@widget.mibbit.com) has joined #okfn 21:08:42 <mib_j0qdl3>	that will be helpful....sometimes a chat can be difficult to follow 21:08:45 <simon_p>	what about forming 'working groups' to take some of these ideas forward? or are are all interested in everything? 21:09:18 	simon_p: agreed. it would be good if people were interested in taking a lead with any of the projects 21:09:35 <cwg_>	I meant to ask (maybe it's a question for next time): how do we relate to openness in tech? Open source, open hardware. It's relevant (e.g. choice of computer systems in development/education programs). 21:10:07 <simon_p>	sorry folks - gotta log off. guests arrived. look forward to transcript........bye 21:10:10 *	simon_p has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 21:10:18 *	gyory has quit 21:10:32 <cwg_>	we're probably all interested in everything, but helpful to get narrowly focused commitment. 21:10:43 <GrahamSteel>	I would be more than interested in assisting in audio link-up for the group 21:10:48 	Am happy to help with DfID project, but don't feel competent to lead on it 21:11:04 	great! 21:11:23 	grahamsteel: can i put an action item for you regarding the audio? 21:11:36 <GrahamSteel>	my pleasure 21:11:43 	that would be great! 21:12:07 	andeggs: great.. i'll list you under the project on the wiki page... 21:12:36 	i'd like to document open data related to development, so i'll put myself down on that front 21:12:37 <GrahamSteel>	I'll probably need some help from Cameron, but I can do it 21:12:55 <cwg_>	I could take on a small specific task - trying to figure out the options. 21:13:07 <cwg_>	could work with Becky on case studies. 21:13:10 <mib_96cwzh>	I'm happy to help on the networking with NGOs 21:13:13 <mib_j0qdl3>	Graham, we use webex, so I can help if needed.. 21:13:20 <GrahamSteel>	cool 21:13:28 <machine_envy>	cwg_: excellent! 21:13:44 	that would be great! 21:13:59 <machine_envy>	ciao ciao everybody - gotta dash, great to meet with you all :) 21:14:02 *	machine_envy has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 21:14:12 <GrahamSteel>	(off to search webex) 21:14:18 <cwg_>	mib_j0qdl3: sorry, what's your name? 21:14:27 <mib_j0qdl3>	also I can support...support ;-)....standards and open data...also 21:14:44 <mib_j0qdl3>	Alex...sorry.... 21:14:51 <GrahamSteel>	Graham Steel 21:15:11 *	aq (bdb4ec9a@widget.mibbit.com) has joined #okfn 21:15:12 	yes it would be great if those who weren't here at the beginning could quickly state their name/affiliation for the transcript 21:15:24 <cwg_>	is someone taking a lead on standards/guidelines? 21:15:31 <mib_j0qdl3>	Alex Coleman, Development Gateway Foundation... 21:15:47 *	aq is now known as Guest158 21:15:50 <cwg_>	great to meet you, Alex. 21:15:59 	hi alex! :-) 21:16:22 <cwg_>	Is DGF connected to the World Bank? I used to have the idea that the Dev Gateways were a WB project. 21:16:27 	cwg_: we're currently looking at standards/guidelines... 21:16:53 <cwg_>	that'll be on the wiki anyway? If so, easy to give input. 21:17:17 <mib_j0qdl3>	hello everyone, yes DGF was started at the WB...we are next door now..OAS building.. 21:17:19 <cwg_>	I could do a spiel on open tech for open dev. 21:18:25 	cwg_ that would be interesting! 21:18:32 	alright... 21:18:52 	is there any thing else that anyone was interested in discussing/asking about? 21:19:12 <cwg_>	timeline for these tasks? before next meeting? (which is when?) 21:19:54 	2 months time i think 21:20:01 	if people are happy with bimonthly meetings 21:20:10 <GrahamSteel>	yes 21:20:44 	That sounds good. This has been productive so far. 21:21:03 <GrahamSteel>	next time - with audio !!!! 21:21:04 	brilliant! 21:21:24 	alright - does anyone else want to put themselves down as looking into any of the projects or anything else? 21:21:33 	(or give themselves any other kind of action item?) 21:21:54 *	Guest158 has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 21:22:03 <GrahamSteel>	(tumbleweed moment) 21:22:18 	 21:22:26 	indeed - does anyone want to join the working group who isn't already on it? 21:22:31 	:-) 21:22:47 <GrahamSteel>	I would, maybe, if that might be OK 21:23:03 <mib_j0qdl3>	sure...count me in 21:23:04 	Though I do also have some value of openness for NGOs text as a blog entry somewhere in the dark past 21:23:21 	that would be great! 21:23:43 	it would be great if you could ping me an email at jonathan dot gray at okfn dot org 21:23:51 	so i can add your email addresses to relevant lists 21:24:23 	joncamfield: would love to see this! 21:25:14 	alright.. 21:25:17 	shall we call it a day? 21:25:24 <cwg_>	Is this transcript going to be put on the wiki? 21:25:35 	of course 21:25:46 	will put it up at meeting page 21:25:51 <cwg_>	cool 21:26:16 <cwg_>	plus a list of who's doing what? (i've made a note in my to for the 2 things I said I'd do) 21:26:20 <cwg_>	oops 21:26:21 *	swampcottage has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 21:26:26 <cwg_>	in my to-do list 21:26:35 	yup.. updating the main wg page.. 21:26:37 *	cwg_ curses the enter key 21:26:40 	http://wiki.okfn.org/wg/development 21:26:49 <GrahamSteel>	JUST before I go, here is today's feed from John Wilbanks talk at the BI http://friendfeed.com/british-library 21:27:06 	Good to meet you all, thanks, bye 21:27:22 <GrahamSteel>	Ciao 21:27:25 *	GrahamSteel has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 21:27:25 	thanks to everyone for coming! 21:27:55 *	Seddon-wmuk rgrp 21:27:57 <Seddon-wmuk>	poke* 21:28:43 <mib_j0qdl3>	last item 21:28:46 <mib_j0qdl3>	http://opendev.ning.com/ 21:28:55 <mib_j0qdl3>	might be worth checking out.. 21:28:56 <mib_j0qdl3>	thanks..;-) 21:29:26 <mib_96cwzh>	bye for now 21:29:32 *	mib_96cwzh has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 21:30:03 	brilliant! 21:30:21 <cwg_>	mib_j0qdl3: yes, that's a good network. 21:33:24 *	mib_r83dfe (c4cad0f4@widget.mibbit.com) has joined #okfn 21:33:41 <mib_r83dfe>	? 21:34:13 	jwyg: http://joncamfield.com/blog/2007/12/web_20_guide_for_nonprofits.html and specifically http://www.joncamfield.com/blog/2007/12/the_power_of_open.html 21:36:00 	joncamfield: brilliant - thanks! 21:36:51 	jwyg: largely catering towards buzzword compliance w/r/t web 2.0 stuff, but I tried to drill in that you don't get "web 2.0" without open data sharing as part of it 21:37:44 *	Yaco_ has quit (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)