Meetings/2008-01

= OKFN Monthly Meeting: meetings/2008-01 =

Where and When

 * When: Wednesday 30th January 2008 at 1900 GMT (2008-01-30T1900)
 * Where: #okfn irc channel on oftc.net

Agenda

 * OKCon
 * final details
 * responding to CFP
 * volunteers and equipment ...
 * CKAN package party
 * Updates on projects and activities
 * COMMUNIA meeting
 * Open Economics
 * theinfo.org
 * Wikispam
 * Wiki todolist
 * AOB

Actions from Last Meeting
(Copy and paste from last meeting)


 * None outstanding AFAICT.

Present

 * nfolson, Jordan, rgrp, jwyg, zool, saul, AaronSw (inactive), Paul_Miller (inactive)

Actions

 * TODO: (jwyg) to contact liz asap about stuff.
 * TODO: (rgrp/jwyg) contact FKI to follow up their initial email about launch.
 * TODO: (rgrp) create wiki page/email list about a ckan packaging party in next month. (In progress: CkanPackageParty)
 * TODO: (jwyg/rgrp/mholloway) OKFN 'promo' materials for OKCon:
 * investigate t-shirt options (anyone else with info pls send it) esp. printing some in advance.
 * stickers
 * TODO: (saul) talk with NODE.London about documentation (see ["Todo List/ask NODE.London people for documentation volunteers"])
 * TODO: (all) add yourself to the volunteers list for OKCon on http://okfn.org/wiki/okcon2008/ (if you are happy to volunteer!)
 * TODO: (all) decide whether a larger space might be needed and (rgrp) investigate with LSE whether this is possible.

IRC Log
#!irc 19:08 jwyg: how was the Gov Data Bar Camp? 19:08 anything interesting? 19:08 yes it was good 19:09 a few people were interested in doing stuff with the okf 19:09 yet to follow up... 19:09 also had a good meeting w/ jordan/pro last week 19:09 yes, i've seen the posts 19:09 woudl be good to start an ok-london thing 19:09 exactly 19:09 btw, any notes from the bar camp 19:10 i didn't take many... 19:10 -!- nfo [nfolson@xi.econ.ox.ac.uk] has joined #okfn 19:10 many sessions were more conversations than talks 19:10 nfo: hey nate 19:10 absolutely, i more meant observations ... 19:11 anything 'grab' your interest 19:11 nfo: hey nate 19:11 hi there 19:11 had a good talk with tom steinberg 19:11 good to hear 19:11 -!- ircleuser [~bakcedtev@91.109.152.231] has joined #okfn 19:12 john sheridan gave a good impromptu demo 19:12 what's that of? of the reuse request service in beta? 19:12 <@zool> hello 19:13 zool: hey jo 19:13 ircleuser: hi there 19:13 no - of work he did on statutory instruments 19:14 nice stuff. 19:14 ok, i think we're good to go. 19:14 amazing 19:14 Hi sorry, Jordan here. I haven't had to do anything on IRC in absolutely ages 19:14 hoho 19:14 ircleuser: good you could make it jordan 19:14 ya, i'm struggling to make sense of this windows irc client... 19:14 hey jordan 19:14 Hi! 19:14 hey jo 19:15 nfo: ever used irssi (it's command line but works real well) 19:15 nfo: there's also a fairly good plugin for mozilla/firefox (chatzilla) 19:15 < AaronSw> hi 19:15 ok, i think we can get started 19:15 AaronSw: good you could make it Aaron 19:15 hi Aaron 19:16 agenda is at: http://okfn.org/wiki/meetings/2008-01 19:16 <@zool> yeah ltns aaron 19:16 rgrp: not used irssi before... unfortunately, these lab machines don't have firefox, and i might be tossed in jail for downloading it myself... 19:16 nfo: ;0 19:17 if you could ssh somewhere you can probably irssi from there but hey, thanks for making the effort in difficult circumstances ... 19:17 ok shall we get started. 19:17 oh, no worries 19:17 yep 19:17 ok -- i gotta run in about 10 19:17 OKCon 19:17 present: AaronSw, zool, nfo, ircleuser (Jordan), rgrp, jwyg 19:17 wait one mo 19:18 ircleuser: is there anything you need specifically to chat about 19:18 given you have got to go 19:18 maybe opendefintion/datacommons stuff 19:18 a CC talk at OKCon? 19:18 I think its a great idea 19:18 basically, is there interest in reviving CC-UK 19:18 yes, though might be nice to have as something slightly broader: e.g. law and licensing 19:19 that would then be able to fit both cc but also discussion of the ODC licenses etc 19:19 ACK -- could have a law and licensing panel that discusses, also could have it in conjunction with Jonathan's idea of a                   monthly meet up of like minded people 19:19 jwyg: we should also invite someone specific from the core communia 19:19 -!- saul [~saul@81-5-139-4.dsl.eclipse.net.uk] has joined #okfn 19:20 lo 19:20 hey saul 19:20 saul: hi sauul 19:20 I guess I missed it 19:20 no it starts at 1900 and we've just begun 19:20 heh 19:20 fine :) 19:20 I just got back 19:20 <@zool> ey up saul 19:20 ircleuser: why don't you start speccing a panel on the wiki: http://okfn.org/wiki/okcon2008/ 19:20 Jordan: that seems sensible 19:21 it could also tie as you say to more regular london meetings 19:21 I know Adnan is already organizing a panel on Open Media in the open space 19:21 will do -- law and licensing with CC and open data combined, with a query at the meetup if people are interested in a more                   concrete CC UK 19:21 adadnan's panel is going to be ace 19:22 yes it is :) 19:22 -!- nfo is now known as nfolson 19:23 ircleuser: so you're happy to take on coordinating a panel on law and licensing (so 3/4 spkrs in 45m-1h) 19:23 in the open space 19:23 -!- ircleuser is now known as Jordan 19:23 < Jordan> will do 19:23 great! 19:24 ok we should bear that in mind as the cfp is starting to get pretty full ... 19:24 <@zool> communia = http://communia-project.eu/ ? 19:24 exactly 19:25 i will contact someone from COMMUNIA asap 19:25 jonathan went and spoke at their recent event 19:25 * saul looks on wiki for agenda 19:25 http://blog.okfn.org/2008/01/25/first-communia-workshop-technology-and-the-public-domain/ 19:25 saul: http://okfn.org/wiki/meetings/2008-01 19:25 thx 19:25 i've also got to write a mini article for the proceedings 19:26 wow, a proceedings :) 19:26 so if there's anything anyone would particularly like to mention... 19:26 we've got our componentization essay that jo and i wrote last year ... 19:26 (i'll write to okfn discuss about this later...) 19:26 ok 19:26 back on okcon: 19:26 main programme is pretty much final w00t! 19:27 http://www.okfn.org/okcon/programme/ 19:27 i'm still in process of finalizing 3rd speaker for tools and visualization 19:27 <@zool> hooray! 19:27 awesome 19:27 good news! 19:27 rgrp: did liz have any suggestions? 19:27 saul: can we get any info (e.g. title) from Liz on what she will be talking about 19:28 saul: i haven't been contacted by her, was I suppose to write to her? 19:28 shall i do it? 19:28 jwyg: that would be great 19:28 she was mumbling something about knowing some great people in Amsterdam for her panel who might be persuaded to come over 19:28 ok.. and ask whether she has a title/suggestions for others? 19:29 under their own steam 19:29 um... not sure 19:29 free knowledge institute 19:29 but she is definitely up for doing hers at least 19:29 ? 19:29 jwyg: that was them 19:29 ok, we should action that asap 19:29 < Jordan> okay -- sorry but I've got to go. I will work on a law and licensing panel with 3/4 speakers for 45min to 1 hour. talk to                you all latorz 19:29 ok.. it would be good to invite them. 19:29 <@zool> cheers Jordan 19:29 bye Jordan 19:29 bye :) 19:29 -!- Jordan [~bakcedtev@91.109.152.231] has quit [Quit: Quit] 19:30 Jordan: thx for coming 19:30 bye jordan! 19:30 heh 19:30 TODO: jwyg to contact liz asap about stuff. 19:30 and FKI? 19:30 <@zool> nod, hinde from fki is lovely 19:30 I think those were the people liz had in mind to come 19:30 hinde might have been the one 19:30 sounds familier 19:30 ar 19:30 even 19:30 saul: great 19:30 i also should write back to the FKI guys as they wrote to us about their launch (which we blogged) 19:31 <@zool> i dont know so much about in the visualisation context tho, more just benefit them being in the loop 19:31 also we'll need to sort out/schedule the open space pretty soon. when should we 'officially' close thhe CFP? 19:31 why not just leave it open? 19:31 open space anyone after a certain time 19:32 early march? 19:32 sure, though we're running out of 'space' in the open space 19:32 <@zool> when is kickout time - 18:30 is absolute? 19:32 i've still got to continue to send out announce... 19:32 are there breakout spaces for spontaneous open spaces? 19:32 we should try and keep them 19:32 but e.g. adnan wanted a scheduled time 19:32 right 19:33 well, still - open space works in parallel so ... 19:33 I don't think it ought to run out really 19:33 we could have the big whiteboard like last time... 19:33 can we partition the space so that breakouts can occur naturally 19:33 yes, btw *please* do keep sending the announce to lists/people you think would be interested 19:33 jwyg: +1 19:33 whiteboard was great last time 19:34 oh, to be clear: adnan stuff is part of the open space 19:34 also please list any mailing lists on http://www.okfn.org/wiki/okcon2008/material 19:34 <@zool> yes i will mail round lots of people know th eschedule looks so neat 19:34 metoo 19:35 cool 19:35 perhaps if we put speakers already on wiki onto paper and make 15 min slots on whiteboard? 19:35 <@zool> jwyg/rgrp the last okfn newsletter wsa great btw and i saw it forwarded on from where i sent it, ++ 19:35 i think we may even want to push 10m (rather than 15 ...) 19:35 cool! 19:35 zool: great! thanks for forwarding! 19:36 10 minute open spaces? 19:36 rgrp: i'm afraid i need to go--but did you get my note about staying in oxford next wednesday night? or do you need to get back to cam that evening? 19:36 no normally, like last year, we divided open spaces into sessions of around 45m-1h 19:36 rgrp: right 19:36 yes, i remember... 19:36 ok 19:36 nfolson: i think i will try to come back to cam but i would very much like to meet with you earlier in the day, e.g. lunchtime, afternnoon ... 19:37 saul: i met one of your friends from thinkpublic 19:37 it is just that once you say 15m most people become 15-20m and given that they *will* kick us out at a particular time we need to be reasonably strict (o/w last session is b0rked) 19:38 nfolson: shall we chat offlist about meeting up. 19:38 jwyg: ivo? 19:38 saul: ivo and ian? 19:38 <@zool> 10min with cutoff at 15 sounds reasonable to me 19:38 nfolson: though i also wanted to talk with you (and everyone else) about a ckan packaging party .. 19:39 saul: it would be great to get them down. ian particularly was interested in getting more involved with okf stuff... 19:39 ckan packaging part sounds like a great idea... 19:40 rgrp: yes, we can talk via email about meeting weds afternoon 19:40 <@zool> more info on wiki about what would happen at the packaging party? 19:40 not yet :) 19:40 but could do this now 19:40 rgrp: i can hang around for a few more mins 19:40 jwyg: ok - I can invite them 19:40 don't want to interrupt the flow of the conversation, though 19:40 idea would be for people to start registering 'packages' (datesets etc) that they know of in there area. we've got a good              backlog ... 19:40 jwyg: they are really great people. Perhaps they would be good volunteers 19:41 if we're on volunteers now 19:41 shall we hold volunteers for a brief mo while we chat about packaging party as relevant for nfolson 19:41 ? 19:41 ok 19:41 saul: i know you're v. busy. i have contact details and can do it if you'd prefer... 19:41 thanks all 19:41 nfolson: would there be a particluar area 19:42 you coudl take on for the packaging party. i remember we spoke about geodata stuff 19:42 (looks back in logs) see: http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/Geodata_Discovery_Working_Group 19:42 zool: i think you were pretty instrumental in putting that together :) 19:43 rgrp: perhaps a few words on what is meant by a 'party' in this sense... just that we all work on ckan at the same time? ie,                 to compel a bit of progress? 19:43 jwyg: thanks :) 19:43 <@zool> oh man, hte osgeo packaging effort has lapsed badly but i have been trying to use/promote ckan fo rthat stuff in the meantime 19:44 exactly, we would all get together (virtually probably on e.g. irc) and have a go at adding packages to ckan 19:44 lets do it 19:44 <@zool> oh, i thought it would be a literal party, pub with wireless access, what have you 19:44 rgrp: i'll be happy to take some responsibility for geodata, though jo has orders of magnitude more knowledge in that area than me :) 19:45 <@zool> but a virtual one would be easier to attend :) 19:45 zool: that would be even better but you're in spain 19:45 :) 19:45 nfolson: you just need enthusiasm 19:45 :) 19:45 fair enough 19:45 not much technical knowledge needed to fill in the ckan fields, i suppose 19:45 <@zool> nfolson: ssh... and more hands better... and if we could get more of th eosgeo geodata interest people chipping in, that would rock 19:46 <@zool> :) 19:46 currently we've got 135 packages 19:46 we coudl aim to get this up to 200 or even 500 ... 19:46 <@zool> i see john is doing more work on the backend again, too, and i have a bunch of annoying questions about i18n and temporal              metadata etc to ask at some point 19:47 you should ask them on okfn-help 19:47 i'm also hacking away 19:47 i'd be really interested in how we could extend support for domain specific metadata... 19:47 (which brings up the need to have some kind of okfn planet that aggregates all the stuff we're up to ...) 19:47 what happened with discussion of machine tags? 19:48 i still think we should aggregate our feeds... 19:48 rgrp: when were you thinking of having the ckan extravaganza? 19:48 well when would be good for people? 19:48 what about sometime in feb? 19:49 when could people spare 30m or an hour so we can all get on here at the same time? 19:49 weekdays or weekends? 19:49 weekday evening? 19:49 hate to say this, but friday evening or saturday is the safest bet for me 19:49 that's not a usuual set i must say :) 19:50 what about a wednesday like this? after all you need is irc + firefox ... 19:50 what about, e.g., wed 20th feb? 19:51 i think if we're aiming for a big leap, we'll need more than 30min 19:51 ok, we could say 2h (though the aim would be to do it again if it was fun) ... 19:51 nfolson: when could you do? 19:51 exactly 19:51 i need to run, but if you come up with 2-3 possible times, i'm sure i could make one work. 19:51 AaronSw - do you think you might be interested in this? 19:52 rgrp: unfortunately don't have my calendar with me 19:52 nfolson: np, we'll put this on okfn-discuss 19:52 rgrp: but yes, a weds evening is probably workable 19:52 < AaronSw> yeah, possibily 19:52 could be good to post on theinfo list and get a transatlantic data discovery thing going on? :-) 19:52 zool: are any particular days bad for you 19:53 <@zool> rgrp: no, any time is good, i have effectively no real life here on the coast of spain :) 19:53 ok it seems 19:53 rgrp: i'll watch okfn-discuss for this. must go. 19:53 bye all :) 19:54 TODO: (rgrp) create wiki page/email list about a ckan packaging party in next month 19:54 nfolson: by 19:54 <@zool> l8rs nfolson 19:54 -!- nfolson [nfolson@xi.econ.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:54 ok 19:54 perhaps we should aim for ~ 10 people, 10 packages each = 100 packages in 2 hours? 19:54 bye nate 19:54 we on to volunteers now? 19:54 saul: yes 19:54 cool 19:54 let's get back to that 19:54 ok 19:54 then I'll have to shoot 19:54 (i'll take the ckan item on and post to list) 19:55 rgrp: great! :-) 19:55 I had a meeting last night with some NODE.London people 19:55 adnan was there 19:55 he wants to document the okcon 19:55 great... 19:55 well - *they* want to document the okcon 19:55 that would be great 19:55 we were jsut wondering about video, photos etc 19:56 <@zool> cool 19:56 and advertise it as part of a whole season of activities in march/april 08 19:56 + audio? 19:56 yeah 19:56 audio, video, blogging etc. 19:56 great... 19:56 so they're making a print flyer, and want to distribute it around london, with a bit of copy advertising okcon 19:56 then if they get some money, they want to edit the proceedings into a video, put materials online and publish any texts resulting 19:56 <@zool> co-option by node-london seems a small price to pay for free av and advertising ;P 19:57 a bit like they did with wsfii in 2005/ 19:57 6 19:57 zool: I think that's the 'value proposition' 19:57 I'm inclined to think it's a good one 19:57 to be clear they just want to include okcon as part of their season of activities 19:57 yes 19:57 there seems to be np with that 19:58 <@zool> yes, i'm glad they're so enthusiastic 19:58 other activities include media artsy stuff 19:58 along the lines you'll find listed in the archives of www.nodel.org 19:58 everyone can still get on with stuff independently and we can cross-promote 19:58 <@zool> it added chic to wsfii 19:58 heh 19:58 and then some ;) 19:58 adnan is keen to cross-promote 19:59 sees the media economics panel as the connective event 19:59 <@zool> what's our max capacity again? 19:59 ~160? 19:59 120 in main room + 30/40 in other room 19:59 (so for main sessions: 120) 19:59 I should think it'll be easy to fill that 19:59 if we think that we could try and upgrade 20:00 though it is quite late in the day and other halls might be gone (and are more expensive ...) 20:00 how many have we currently got signed up? 20:00 ~60 20:00 ok 20:00 based on last year i think we will easily max out (more central location will also reduce number of no-shows) 20:01 do people want me to see if we can upgrade? 20:01 i think it would be worth investigating... 20:01 <@zool> +1 20:01 re our own promotion: we should also sort out t-shirts and maybe 'supporter' forms 20:01 cool 20:01 it would be good to try and encourage people to more formally support our activities 20:01 did we print the stickers? 20:01 i'm on t-shirts.. 20:02 stickers are ordered but pending... 20:02 jwyg: what happened with the stickers ... 20:02 will sort asap 20:02 (we ordered them 3 months ago i think :) but they haven ot been v. efficient) 20:02 the guy just seems to forget about it 20:02 jwyg: btw michael holloway texted to say he could not make irc but to sign him up for some todos ... 20:02 well when they arrive they're sure to be the mother of all stickers 20:02 :) 20:02 i know... 20:02 he couldn't understand that we wanted them a little blocky.. 20:03 ;) 20:03 (if it not too late maybe we should at least add our url to the stickers ...) 20:03 ok.. 20:03 perhaps that's what he's waiting for 20:03 (we never got round to that ...) 20:03 i doubt it is too late.. 20:03 anyhow... 20:03 he thinks they're shit and doesn't want to print them 20:03 but we do need to sort that out in the next month. 20:03 he did say he didn't like them... 20:03 action me 20:03 lol 20:04 frankly we should just take this to somewhere local. the amount of price difference should be minimal 20:04 on the t-shirts anyone know how we could get some printed (we could then maybe sell them ...) 20:04 (for anyone that hasn't noticed, we've got a new todo system...) 20:04 http://www.okfn.org/wiki/TodoList 20:05 i've signed us up to a spreadshirt account 20:05 (aside: our todolist stuff is just some moin macros ...) 20:05 jwyg: but does that allow us to get a whole bunch just printed up for selling (might not be very efficient) 20:06 true 20:06 would be good to have a bunch for okcon 20:06 also spreadshirt ones say spreadshirt on the back, i think... 20:07 <@zool> liz had a tshirt printing biz a while back, they were very high quality, smallish runs, could be worth asking 20:07 TODO: jwyg/rgrp/mholloway investigate t-shirt options (anyone else with info pls send it) 20:07 jwyg: you can add that as a ps to email to liz 20:08 yep 20:08 so, to ask liz: okcon title, contacts for other speakers, and t-shirt printing advice? 20:09 volunteers. we do need volunteers both generally and for okcon. 20:09 our spreadshirt account is here, pending designs... http://288096.spreadshirt.net/en/GB/Shop 20:09 i should be able to get some for okcon 20:10 I'll ask for documentation volunteers from NODE.London 20:10 * saul todos himself 20:10 TODO: (saul) talk with NODE.London about documentation 20:11 all: there's a helping out section on http://okfn.org/wiki/okcon2008/ 20:11 please add yourself (or i'll add you if you are happy to be added) 20:11 jwyg: what happened to those volunteers who you were in contact with a while back. this would be a perfect opportunity to work with them 20:11 shall i make the coffee again, or will there be a machine or something? 20:12 rgrp: i'll chase this up 20:12 good question. i think LSE charge to have refreshment and i don't know how hot they'll be on us doing stuff 20:12 i guess we could ask pro... 20:13 <@zool> will's up for helping out (he says hi btw) 20:13 cool (will: hi back ...) 20:13 ok... 20:13 so let's close this out: 20:14 regarding volunteers more generally - we really need technical volunteers... 20:14 ok... 20:14 you mean people to wokr video projectors etc? 20:14 who can code, etc. 20:14 TODO: (all) add yourself to the volunteers list on http://okfn.org/wiki/okcon2008/ (if you are happy to volunteer) 20:14 saul: but also video projects/recording for the okcon event ... 20:14 right 20:15 we also need people to help occasionally despam thhe wiki :) 20:15 or help out with the http://okfn.org/wiki/TodoList :) 20:15 it would be good to have more people who can code :-) 20:16 coders are hard to find ;0 20:16 does anyone use slashdot? 20:16 i know... 20:18 anyway we've got: http://okfn.org/wiki/TodoList/Find_places_to_ask_for_coding_volunteers#preview 20:18 ok 20:18 <@zool> jwyg: is there a "general coding tasks for projects" pae anywhere or is it more a question of picking a project then looking at              its trac? 20:18 I gotta shoot... 20:18 ok i think we should move on so we can close out. it is getting late (in dylan's immortal phrase) 20:18 <@zool> cheesy saul! 20:19 bye .* :) 20:19 zool: the latter atm 20:19 bye saul! 20:19 -!- saul [~saul@81-5-139-4.dsl.eclipse.net.uk] has left #okfn [] 20:19 saul: by saul, thx for coming 20:19 ok shall we leave it here ... 20:19 AaronSw: would you like to chat about theinfo + ckan? 20:21 <@zool> i'd love to get the info on theinfo at some point and burble about syndication and search but that does not have to be today 20:21 zool: do you think it would be useful to aggregate trac items 20:21 jwyg: for what? 20:22 <@zool> jwyg: hm, i mean more as an overview of what projects & rouhly what kind of tasks are needing work on, rather than right into the specifics 20:22 john at appropriate software have got something rather like this already and it should be easy to code 20:22 i've already written a cmdline utility to grab trac tickets and aggregate 20:22 great.. 20:23 <@zool> neat 20:23 see e.g. http://eternity.appropriatesoftware.net/concerns/2/ 20:23 or rather: http://eternity.appropriatesoftware.net/backlogs/ 20:23 this is ASF stuff but one could get something similar for the OKFN 20:24 ah yes... i remember this... 20:25 re: theinfo, what do people think? 20:25 i'm on all the lists.. 20:25 it would be great if we could collaborate 20:25 i know! 20:25 it seems there are obvious complementarities 20:25 i should start being more active in discussions... 20:26 perhaps we could also, e.g. link to data mirrors on archive... 20:26 i like the way that Aaron is using archive.org as a backend. this would dovetail nicely with ckan as metadata register 20:26 :-) 20:27 what kinds of technical things could we do to ensure that we're working together? 20:27 AaronSw: are you there? 20:28 hmm.. 20:29 i think we could leave this for today and chat with him direct on irc another time. 20:29 ok... 20:29 it is nearly lunchtime in sf 20:30 was there anything specific re: open economics? 20:30 (which is on the agenda?) 20:30 well ckan software has just had a release (v0.5) 20:30 http://pypi.python.org/pypi/ckan/0.5 20:31 good news! 20:31 should probably blog this (plus the breaking a 100 packages) 20:31 openeconomics is certainly due another release 20:32 <@zool> great 20:32 jwyg: opentextbook probably needs another post or 2 20:32 (where) can one get ckan data dump? 20:33 rgrp: i know, just got an email about otb, will put a few up asap 20:33 i have decided to concert efforts to do more technical stuff 20:38 sure 20:39 <@zool> i've been doing some work on a geospecific vaguely ckan-like thing; i'd hoped to integrate more, or do pluggable domain model thing but there jus twasnt time and i was too wary of distraction 20:39 zool: great! 20:39 would love to hear more about it... 20:39 <@zool> i've been hacking about with OpenSearch a bit though and would be interested in making an opensearch interface to ckan 20:39 <@zool> nod, it's all i n a not-quite-open state 20:39 <@zool> but i shold be able to publish more (nboth code + writing) soon 20:39 i look forward to reading about it!