Meetings/2006-10-31

= Meeting 2006-10-31 =

Where and When

 * When: Tuesday 2006-10-31 at 1900 GMT
 * Where: #okfn irc channel on oftc.net

Agenda

 * sysadmin stuff
 * servers:
 * one proper on in us: lt1.okfn.org
 * one 'domestic' one dev.okfn.org
 * infrastructure:
 * have a ticket system: http://www.okfn.org/sysadmin/trac/
 * have a wiki: http://www.okfn.org/sysadmin/wiki/ -- wiki should be merged into trac wiki asap
 * have svn: http://www.okfn.org/sysadmin/svn/
 * changed to nicer theme for okfn.org
 * how do we coordinate
 * a new server?
 * replication/backup
 * (anyone want to share -- i.e. use for other projects)
 * civic info event on nov 28th
 * open knowledge 1.0 next march
 * project updates:
 * open knowledge definition
 * knowledgeforge
 * ckan
 * open shakespeare
 * personal projects ...
 * other projects
 * t-shirts

Summary

 * RP = Rufus Pollock
 * JW = Jo Walsh
 * SA = Saul Albert

Main action points:

1. RP: to get a new dedicated dev server from hetzner.de and configure as backup and dev machine (existing dev.okfn.org is ok but pretty flaky)

2. SA + JW: check out (and 'critique') sysadmin docs at:


 * http://www.okfn.org/sysadmin/wiki

3. ALL: publicize civic info forum on 28th of November


 * http://www.okfn.org/okforums/civicinfo/

4. ALL: decide on suitable name for day event in march (current suggestion 'open knowledge 1.0')

5. ALL (?): write an announce for open knowledge 1.0 event and circulate asap

6. Organizing sessions for OK-1.0 (all other assistance welcome)


 * SA (+ Adnan?): to organize open media session
 * JW: to organize open geo
 * RP: to organize civicinfo and open science data

irc transcript
[19:08] rgrp: let's start the meeting **** [19:08] zool: well, quickly yes i would definitely like to know how it is possible for myself and others to help, when or if needed [19:08] zool: i thought we had already started [19:09] saul: zool: your typing noises seem to indicate more activity than appears on teh screen [19:09] zool:              :P [19:09] rgrp: we'll try and keep this short and focused [19:09] saul: sry. :) [19:09] saul: so. infrastructure. [19:09] rgrp: basically help *is* needed on server maintenance [19:09] rgrp: particularly if the main sysadmin (currently me) is away [19:09] zool: so lt1.okfn.org is the current www.okfn.org etc? [19:09] rgrp: yep [19:09] rgrp: that's right [19:09] saul: what's it running? [19:10] zool: is john also helping you with that [19:10] rgrp: saul: debian [19:10] zool: good [19:10] rgrp: zool: no john is not [19:10] saul: any kind of hosting virtualisation etc..? [19:10] rgrp: no it's a full machine [19:10] rgrp: and we haven't split it ourselves [19:10] saul: I've been running ispconfig now for the things I don't want to go away. [19:10] saul: it's good. once you get used to the clickiness of it. [19:10] zool: all the config is in svn and is in a checkout in /home/okfn, i have seen that [19:10] saul: ah. [19:11] rgrp: not quite [19:11] rgrp: basically i should document this more on: http://www.okfn.org/sysadmin/wiki/ [19:11] rgrp: there is: http://www.okfn.org/sysadmin/wiki/SystemOrganization [19:11] zool: so by maintenance = keeping an eye on the logs, checkign for security updats that kind of thing [19:12] rgrp: exactly and noticing if the machine goes down ... [19:12] saul: is a bad sysadmin [19:12] rgrp: i should provide the main helpdesk password to you guys [19:13] zool: so we could submit reboot requests if anything ever goes boom? [19:13] rgrp: to be honest most of the time no assistance is needed but if you know more: a) you can set things up if you need to b) if i am away you can fix things [19:13] rgrp: zool: exactly [19:13] zool: it's pretty stable though genereally? this is nt a lot of load you are talking about, just a background awareness [19:13] zool: nods [19:13] rgrp: i've had several occasions where shutdown -r now has not worked as planned [19:13] zool: okay this makes sense [19:14] zool: hmz [19:14] saul: eek [19:14] rgrp: but zool is right: it generally stays up without anything happening [19:15] rgrp: i plan to start using the ticket system more heavily and also using this for people who are dependent on it (e.g. wsfii, freeculture). [19:15] rgrp: trac install which will support this at: http://www.okfn.org/sysadmin/trac/ [19:15] rgrp: current tickets are: http://www.okfn.org/sysadmin/trac/report/1 [19:15] saul: wow. your documentation looks good. [19:15] zool: okay so there are a ton of docs we can refer to though they all live on the same system as we'd want to repair ;) [19:15] rgrp: (i plan to move the sysadmin wiki mentioned earlier into trac) [19:16] rgrp: good point :-\ [19:16] rgrp: i should probably put a summary in /root/ [19:16] zool: ah well if there is dev backup system in a different place and it has a mirror then that would be fine [19:16] rgrp: though only of stuff needed to get the machine up again [19:16] rgrp: it doesn't have a mirror [19:16] zool: that sounds like it would be very useful [19:16] zool: rsync? [19:17] rgrp: basically that brings us to another agenda item: getting another server to act as a mirror (and dev machine) [19:17] rgrp: at some point by a law of nature something bad will happen to the main machine [19:17] zool: mm hmm [19:18] saul: I am using hetzner.de [19:18] zool: you have a machien runnign on your dsl line providing some bts of kforge services, right? or you did... [19:18] saul: for 40 euros a month you get your own machine [19:18] rgrp: that is very good value [19:18] saul: 160gb disk, unlimited transfer.. [19:19] saul: 2gigs of ram.. [19:19] rgrp: that sounds very good. [19:19] zool: not bad at all [19:19] saul: I'm running 64bit debian on it and it's sweet. [19:19] saul: there's a reboot robot that works, and a read-only mount for system rescue [19:19] rgrp: do they 'support' english [19:20] saul: I've actually got two of them. One for dev, one for stable. [19:20] saul: english support is gruff, but ok [19:20] saul: the dev machine rsyncs the main host [19:20] rgrp: completely? [19:20] saul: nope. [19:20] saul: just configs, files and database dumps [19:20] rgrp: saul: ok that sounds really good -- perhaps you could your rsync script [19:21] saul: sure. I'll look for it. [19:21] saul: I actually used a good howto form howtoforge [19:21] saul: ratches [19:21] rgrp: so action: rgrp to get a new dedicated dev server from hetzner.de [19:22] zool: how's this being paid for or is that rude to ask [19:22] saul: zool: mikey pays for the dev host from talkaoke. [19:22] rgrp: no that's cool: at present i fund the dedicated server personally [19:23] saul: I pay for the other one, split between me, Julian Priest and Greenman. [19:23] rgrp: (phd/writing funds) [19:23] zool: smiles okay [19:23] saul:      http://www.falkotimme.com/howtos/dedicated_server_backup_restore_systemimager/ [19:24] rgrp: that brings me to the point that currently the machines are underused and i'm happy for people to run open knowledge type stuff (esp once we have a dev machine) [19:24] zool: okay, good to know [19:25] zool: there is the freemap.in system which i have for a lot of random geodata stuff - plus the osgeo thing at sdsu - it's all being handled really [19:25] zool: but there is also this video metadata thing which saul has been messing around with a bit [19:25] saul: aha [19:25] rgrp: btw: has the knowledgeforge project for your geo metadata stuff been any use? [19:25] zool: and the transmission.cc people have been looking at some of my old code, the bbox part f consumtronic that is on kforge now [19:26] saul: zool: who were you showing that to? [19:26] saul: zoe? [19:26] zool: i might do 'em like a video extension pack, if i can pick up any nice libraries that wll read a lot of metadata from video headers [19:26] saul: I've been seriously negligent at being in touch with that. [19:26] rgrp: that would be fantastic ... [19:26] zool: no, i didnt show it anyone - i had an email from jamie king about bbox though - he was getting right into it [19:26] saul: rgrp: I like the new okfn theme :) [19:27] zool: yeah so that's the sort of thing - a metadata-only aggregtator for open licensed vide data - that could live at okfn [19:27] zool: yay the new theme [19:27] rgrp: all thanks to zool [19:27] saul: zool: can we talk about aggregators in the projects bit of this meeting? [19:27] rgrp: good idea [19:27] zool: well thanks to me nagging you and complaining ;P [19:27] rgrp: i suggest we close this out with: [19:27] rgrp: action: rgrp to sort out dev machine [19:27] zool: oh gosh i didnt see all that more on the agenda [19:27] saul: ok. I can advise on hetzner.de setup if necessary [19:27] rgrp: action: saul + zool check out docs and maybe log every so often and look around [19:28] saul: sure. np. [19:28] rgrp: saul: that would be *really* useful [19:28] saul: I can learn to install and set things up too if it's well documented [19:28] rgrp: okay: END sysadmin stuff [19:28] zool: good [19:28] saul:              :)          [19:28] zool: this civic info thing at UCL [19:28] zool: it's going to be fun [19:28] saul: nov 28th. [19:29] rgrp:       http://www.okfn.org/okforums/civicinfo2/    [19:29] zool: you need help with it in terms of wrm bodies to move chairs and sign people up on the door? [19:29] rgrp: that would be very useful [19:29] saul: I'm happy to help with that. [19:29] rgrp: also publicity is really useful [19:29] saul: also help publicise etc. [19:29] rgrp: so far about 10 people have signed up though i've only mailed okfn-announce and discuss [19:30] zool: i've seen it go round the lists i'm on that would care alreadt, probably, but can think harder [19:30] rgrp: i might try to get cory to boingboing it [19:30] zool: okay i will think on who else to shove it towards [19:30] zool: that would work [19:30] rgrp: also a lot of people turn up on the door [19:30] saul: dorkbot network would be good. [19:30] saul: also Christian Ahlert might be useful. [19:30] zool: who me? [19:30] zool: who he, even? [19:30] rgrp: usual numbers are 30 - 50 [19:30] saul: zool: openbusiness.cc [19:31] rgrp: Christian I'll notify direct as I know him pretty well from CC days [19:31] rgrp: what do you think of sepakers [19:31] saul: rgrp: Christian has been talking to me about organising a new event [19:32] saul: well... later [19:32] rgrp: saul: what kind of thing .... [19:32] zool: speakers look good heather brooke is always good [19:32] saul: I don't really know them.. will be interested. [19:33] saul: it seems quite straight laced, but maybe that's good. [19:33] saul: I guess Richard Pope might be fruity? [19:33] zool: i can ask chris corbin to send it round the PSI cliques [19:33] zool: i don't know Richard Pope [19:33] zool: julian tood is lovely [19:33] zool: dd [19:33] zool: brb [19:34] rgrp: k [19:34] rgrp: i think we can close this one then. [19:34] rgrp: action: publicize more :) [19:34] saul: ok. [19:34] saul: I'd also like to gather more info on comparative efforts elsewhere [19:35] saul: wonders if that research can be bootstrapped from the event [19:35] saul: maybe not. [19:35] rgrp: comparative efforts on civicinfo? [19:35] saul: yeah [19:35] saul: in other political systems.. other european countries. [19:35] zool: civicaccess.ca [19:35] saul: I guess debating systems don't map cleanly [19:35] rgrp: elsewhere = elsewhere in UK or elsewhere in Europe/US [19:35] saul: europe. [19:35] rgrp: taht would be fantastic [19:36] saul: yeah, I don't know of a resource, but it would be a great document to prepare. [19:36] saul: I bet Tom Steinberg has a bunch of docs on that for drumming up $$$ [19:36] zool:              :) [19:36] rgrp: Tom's coming to the event [19:37] zool: can we rattle on? i would like to be able to de-screen fairly soon ... sorry .. [19:37] zool: it will be nice to see tom [19:37] saul: ok. [19:37] rgrp: END: civicinfo [19:37] zool: blinks, it's also the overheads i think [19:37] rgrp: BEGIN: open knowledge v1.0 [19:37] zool: i have a big witchy hat somewhere [19:37] zool: march 17th, right? [19:37] rgrp: yes that is right [19:37] saul: checks boxingclub calendar once more [19:37] saul: are we thinking of limehouse? [19:38] saul: syr.. can't remember. [19:38] rgrp: yes limehouse for sure [19:38] zool: yes [19:38] rgrp: i think it will be *one* day only [19:38] saul: yes. marked down. [19:38] saul: booked :) [19:38] saul: so, I can unbook the 18th? [19:38] rgrp: saul: yes [19:39] zool: not thinking of a hacl session or anything preceding follwong? [19:39] zool: hack [19:39] zool: sorry, unfamiliar wide keyboard [19:39] rgrp: i think we need to a) publicize soonish (i.e. next month) b) organize speakers [19:39] zool: okay so we should fix format so we know how many streams, speakers [19:39] saul: what's the main objective? [19:39] zool: good q [19:40] saul: bring disperate groups together? [19:40] zool: well, if it's no more than a keep-the-ball-rolling thing is that good enough? [19:40] rgrp: to have a conference in this case where quite a bit of activity from different disciplines can be demoed [19:40] saul: a kind of uk wsfiiesque thing but more focused and policy-sharpened? [19:40] zool: the whoe '1.0' seems like it could be a markteing initiative [19:40] saul:              :p [19:40] rgrp: i don't think we are that policy-focused though like the forums it would be nice to have a spectrum of people there [19:41] saul: yeah [19:41] saul: I liked wsfii's join the dots attempt [19:41] zool: right, i thought development-focused but with a policy slice [19:41] zool: people who are really building things and trying to connect them [19:41] saul: maybe a policy sprinkling? [19:41] rgrp: yes [19:41] rgrp: yes to both [19:41] saul: ok. That's a good objective. [19:41] rgrp: the main interesting thing i'd like to achieve is to have quite a few different areas [19:41] saul: so, if it works, it will stimulate development and action on a number of fronts. [19:42] rgrp: suggest: science, geo, civicinfo, content [19:42] saul: communicating... regularly [19:42] zool: i see the geo having a planning/archiving spin [19:42] zool: and i would want to as mentioned rope osgeo-uk people into even helping organise definitely publicise [19:43] rgrp: of course most stuff doesn't fit easily in a given category [19:43] rgrp: that would be great [19:43] zool: how much do you want to tout things like the OKD around [19:43] saul: maybe we can try to identify ongoing processes/activities that can take any gains/developments/insights had thorugh 1.0 forwards [19:43] rgrp: i'd think it would be great if streams were organized by other groups [19:43] zool: getting back to the 1.0 spin is this the launch of something intellctually tangible, talkable about, movement stuff? [19:43] saul: hmz. nervous about 'movement'. [19:43] rgrp: v1.0 was just so we could easily label future ones [19:44] saul: more articulating existing strands.. [19:44] zool:              :)          [19:44] rgrp: it would be great to run more in future years [19:44] saul: ++ [19:44] zool: yes not saying 'movement' seriously [19:44] saul: I'm interested in ongoing things [19:44] zool: series++ [19:44] saul: I think it would also be good to try and bring in non-signed-up groups [19:44] rgrp: as in ... [19:44] saul: educators, planners [19:44] zool: mmm i wonder if we culd get christian wolmar to come talk about public transport planning and accounting information [19:45] zool: i like the deprtment for transport connection with freeourdata.org.uk [19:45] zool: we should resync with them, right? [19:45] saul: I think public transport / civic development is a key group of potential inductees [19:45] zool: yay [19:45] rgrp: that would be perfect for civicinfo or geodata [19:45] saul: well, for all these strands really. [19:45] saul: I'm developing some courses at the Westbourne Studios. [19:45] rgrp: the main task here though is for us to do some rough scheduling of what we need to do [19:45] saul: yeah. [19:45] saul: ok. [19:45] zool: right, we had a lot of grey areas and potential speaker overlap before [19:46] saul: rouch scheduling - let's keep it *super minimal* [19:46] saul: rouch! [19:46] rgrp: i think we need an announce mail we start circulating mid-late november [19:46] zool: courses... sounds good.. .will they be open licensed? :) [19:46] saul: zool: of courses! [19:46] zool: by announce time we need speaker list? or some of it? [19:46] rgrp: i don't think so [19:46] zool: wow that is like 4 months [19:46] saul: well. maybe we need more of a call for interest. [19:46] rgrp: i think the first announce just let's people know it is happening [19:46] zool: i guess good to get in early on the social calendar thugh [19:47] rgrp: btw here i'm just following wsfii [19:47] saul: yeah. [19:47] zool: nod [19:47] saul: I think it was a good model. [19:47] rgrp: where we had an announce early and then speaker list only a month before the event [19:47] saul: it just went fucking wierd when it moved to india ;) [19:47] saul: recap: [19:47] saul: civicinfo, geodata [19:48] saul: ? [19:48] rgrp: science and content [19:48] zool: content being like freeculture [19:48] saul: thx [19:48] zool: ? [19:48] saul: hm. [19:48] rgrp: yup [19:48] saul: content is a bad word [19:48] zool: perhaps start a speaker brainstorming page somewhere quiet on the wiki [19:48] rgrp: but stuff like video would go in there [19:48] saul: freeculture is too specific [19:48] zool: whats a better word [19:48] zool: 'open media' [19:49] rgrp: content was the best i came up with running an open knowledge forum. i know it is kind of corporate [19:49] zool: ? [19:49] rgrp: open media sounds promising [19:49] zool: i agree content is a kind of icky word [19:49] saul: open shmopen [19:49] zool: lol [19:49] zool: 'free media' [19:49] zool: 'free culture' akk [19:49] saul: 'stuff' [19:49] rgrp: sure but it goes way back before cc even ( there was an open content license) [19:49] zool: thphppt [19:50] zool: let's argue about it on the mailing list [19:50] saul: ok. [19:50] saul: we need something that grabs the interesting bits of all this. [19:50] rgrp: anyway: how about assigning geodata to zool, open media to saul, and civicinfo and science to me [19:50] zool: why *not* open? [19:50] zool: sorry srry [19:50] zool: yes that sounds good to me [19:50] zool: then saul can call it what he likes [19:50] saul: ok. [19:51] rgrp: we'll put a planning page on the wiki and i'll put an official page somewhere under okfn.org/okforums/ for the time being [19:51] saul: media of openess [19:51] zool: smiles politely [19:51] zool: okay good [19:51] saul: cool. I'm just going to delegate to Adnan Hadzi though. [19:51] saul: well, and to others.. [19:52] saul: move on? [19:52] zool: delegation++ [19:52] rgrp: that's fine Adnan is really cool but you are *ultimately* responsible :) [19:52] zool: we are meta-organising, you know [19:52] saul: rgrp: understood [19:52] zool: yes let's move on i think we can't resolve much more about this [19:52] rgrp: we want roughly 4 people per session. i generally believe in keeping it short here and letting people demo more later etc [19:52] zool: nod [19:53] rgrp: so shall we aim to have at least contacted people by early dec [19:53] zool: try and have an evening event, a demo party here rather than just drifting off to the pub? [19:53] saul: yes. [19:53] rgrp: ? [19:53] zool: that sounds generous, i'd want to have contacted people sooner [19:53] zool: okay good [19:53] rgrp: well sure start contacting them now that's just a deadline [19:53] saul: can we do talkaoke? [19:53] rgrp: :0 [19:53] rgrp: in the evening? [19:53] saul: yes [19:53] rgrp: sure [19:54] saul: maybe... too specific. It might not make sense. [19:54] saul: I'll ask mikey about it anyway. [19:54] rgrp: it would be great to have something organized for the evening .. [19:54] zool: oh i have an unrelated but semi-urgent kforge svn question, don't let me forget before we finish to ask it [19:54] saul: Talkaoke and alcohol would probably be good. [19:54] saul: zool: go ahead then. [19:54] zool: yay talkaoke [19:54] zool: oh not right now, let's finish the agenda, sorry [19:54] rgrp: ok this is good we can close this one out now. [19:54] zool: i am just thinking aloud on irc as is my wont [19:54] zool: yes [19:54] rgrp: action: someone (?) to write an announce and circulate asap [19:55] zool: lets draft one together on the list, why not you start rgrp [19:55] rgrp: action: saul to organize open media session, zool to do open geo, rgrp: civicinfo and science [19:55] rgrp: zool: good idea [19:55] rgrp: END: open knowledge v1.0 ... [19:55] rgrp: START: project updtaes [19:56] saul: okd looks great [19:56] saul: I've been using it as a thinktool [19:56] zool: ? [19:56] zool: i'ev been shoving it at the odd posse of fuckers [19:56] rgrp: that's great [19:56] zool: it sems to get positive reaction or at least not negative ones [19:56] saul: I think the knowledge packaging ideas could go further [19:57] saul: I mean, could have some kind of implementation [19:57] zool: i hink it is a Good Thing and Always Comes In Handy in terms of cutting through licensing discussions [19:57] saul: project spin-off [19:57] saul: yeah. [19:57] zool: yes that is what openshakespeare is about saul, as i understand it [19:57] saul: of course. [19:57] rgrp: saul: you're absolutely right [19:57] zool: and i want to think more about geodata in that context too althugh it's not hosted here [19:57] saul: I was thinking in terms of learning resources [19:58] saul: course design. [19:58] rgrp: one thing that zool pointed out was that it would be good to pull some of our ideas together into a coherent whole -- perhaps a nice list of blog posts [19:58] saul: shit, yes. [19:58] rgrp: btw: steve coast has donated us the opentextbook.org domain [19:58] saul: I still haven't set up my blog. [19:58] rgrp: which i've been meaning to put to use [19:58] saul: rgrp: sounds interesting. [19:58] saul: one project too many for stevec :) [19:59] zool: lol okay [19:59] rgrp: i think there is a real role for a debian type approach in this area: i.e. making a coherent set of packages out of existing material [19:59] zool: osgeo is also plannign some collarboatively produced educational books [19:59] saul: rgrp: ++ [19:59] zool: looking into different poroduction editing toosl etc [19:59] saul: sudo apt-get install anarchism [19:59] zool: nod, modularisation [19:59] zool: pick and mix [19:59] rgrp: i thought we could use opentextbook.org to point to stuff etc [19:59] zool: right down to the level of individua powerpoint slides almost [19:59] rgrp: exactly! [20:00] rgrp: zool: that goes to hard questions of the requisite level of atomisation [20:00] zool: okay, that sounds like a fun thing to think about [20:00] zool: mm hm [20:00] zool: it's also a propos of not much a model that oreilly is increasingly moving to [20:00] rgrp: zoo: http://www.thefactz.org/ideas/archives/26 [20:00] zool: readers composing from available pices into a printable work [20:01] rgrp: anyway: i'm glad okd is useful. i think the main challenge is always to adapt it to any given area and the problems it faces [20:01] saul: I have these 1920's science text books, with *amazing* illustrations [20:01] zool: i dont believe that i process information linearly [20:01] saul: I was thinking of scanning them [20:01] saul: and using them as the starting point for a knowledge refinement experiment [20:02] saul: they're a downpayment on use and attention [20:02] zool: lovely [20:02] saul: people would definitely be interested because they're so gorgeous and not available elsewhere online [20:02] rgrp: that would be very cool [20:02] saul: well, it would be interesting to start with those as a wiki-stub [20:02] saul: and see where they went. [20:02] rgrp: i've got some cc economics stuff [20:02] zool: i need to go to the toilet - back in a few [20:03] saul: maybe that idea is a bit too abstract [20:03] saul: I'll scan some and we can look at them together, perhaps at the next meeting. [20:03] rgrp: that would be great [20:04] saul: I'm going to start blogging too. [20:04] saul: I can blog on okfn no? [20:04] rgrp: on the okfn blog? [20:04] rgrp: that would be *really* great [20:04] rgrp: let me give you an account now [20:04] rgrp: what username would you like? [20:04] saul: saul :) [20:04] saul: or saulalbert [20:05] rgrp: email? [20:05] saul:      saul@theps.net    [20:05] zool: yay [20:05] zool: i have like 3 bloggages stacked up in my head / stuck on my old laptop [20:05] rgrp: i've set you up with password saul: login and change it asap [20:05] saul: rgrp: thx :) [20:06] rgrp: moving on: knowledgeforge is ticking along and john and i will be doing some work on it this month [20:07] rgrp: existing slow auth issues are now fixed and we should have another release (v0.12) out before xmas [20:07] saul: nice 1 [20:07] saul: the consumotronic package hasn't moved in a while [20:07] zool: you should ratchet up that release number for marketing reasons [20:07] saul: but might do at some point soonish... [20:07] saul: zool: ? [20:07] zool: yes well i will have you know i am working on bbox again [20:07] saul: zool: w00t :) [20:07] zool: well right now i am just writing about working on it [20:07] saul: wowz [20:08] zool: but yes it's worth finishing and adapting, it still has a niche. [20:08] saul: checks zool's devlog [20:08] rgrp: btw: do update your svn links to the new ones ... at some point the old scm.kforge.net will go away [20:08] zool: hehe it's all stuck on my old laptop too ;) [20:08] zool: rgrp: right that i what i wantewd to as k about [20:08] zool: i can't see how to svn checkout of a new project [20:08] zool: i would be happy to contrib docs to kforge [20:09] zool: if i can figure out what i talk to instead of the old scm [20:09] rgrp: if you go to your project and go the relevant service you will have a link to it [20:09] zool: i see a link to the web view [20:09] zool: i tried svn checkout that same url and just got a PROPFIND error [20:09] rgrp: yup that's it [20:09] rgrp: which link is that [20:10] zool: hang on a sec [20:10] rgrp: i'm looking at: https://www.knowledgeforge.net/project/consumotronic/services/svn/ [20:10] rgrp: the link there is to: http://project.knowledgeforge.net/consumotronic/svn [20:10] zool:      http://project.knowledgeforge.net/geometa/svn/ [20:10] zool: thats what i tried to check out [20:11] zool: and it said PROPFIDN 405 denied, things like that [20:11] zool: ND [20:11] rgrp: i've just done that without any problems [20:11] zool: frowns [20:11] zool: okay i can have another go later when i get the laptop back online, and let you know; perhaps it was a blip [20:12] rgrp: yup just ping me or by email [20:12] zool: thanks, sorry to distract [20:12] rgrp: anyway [20:12] zool: quite [20:12] rgrp: ckan has been delayed yet again as i and john were ill in sept/oct [20:12] zool: lot of us were ill, i thnk [20:12] rgrp: the current trunk is running at http://test.ckan.net/ [20:13] rgrp: i'm thinking of just throwing up a wiki page at http://www.ckan.net/ for the time being ... [20:13] zool: heh [20:13] zool: i'd be interested in looking at it [20:13] zool: perhaps i can find some time to try and pair program with john on some part of it [20:14] rgrp: that would be great [20:14] zool: i'll ask him whether he has time and would be into a practise session [20:14] zool: okay cool [20:14] rgrp: open shakespeare: v0.3 out [20:14] rgrp: lots of cool stuff to add the most pressing probably being annotation using cool js stuff [20:14] zool: you've had some feedback about it? wasn't there a mention in an article, or a pssible one? [20:15] rgrp: yes a guy from newsforge had a long correspondence [20:15] zool: ah yes the draded AJAX [20:15] rgrp: he said he was going to write an article but i haven't seen anything up yet [20:15] zool: well i heave to learn some of that too i think [20:15] rgrp: also talked with paula ledieu extensively about it [20:15] zool: okay so maybe [20:15] rgrp: (and about other things -- really interesting conversation) [20:15] zool: :) what is she doing now [20:15] rgrp: working for magic lantern [20:16] rgrp: she said that he DfES and BEICTA are now getting quite interested in 'open' stuff [20:16] zool: they seem dodgy as all get out from a quick googly look [20:16] zool: okay great [20:16] rgrp: we talked about tools that are required (i've started a page at http://okfn.org/wiki/ToolsWeNeed) [20:17] rgrp: what about you guys: anything interesting in the pipeline [20:17] zool: well maybe this geometadata thing [20:17] zool: a new ad-hoc standard caleld dclite4g - dubline core geospatial extensions [20:18] zool: i need to finish some software as always [20:18] rgrp: yes i'd seen they had some temporal extensions [20:18] zool: this is now living on okfn and i need to tell my potential cllaborators to register there [20:18] saul: rgrp: I've been talking to the espians [20:18] saul: they are fucking insane, of course [20:18] rgrp: what are they up to [20:18] zool: right some this is about metadata query spatiotemporal and distrbute metadata archive ike spatial search engine beginning of [20:18] saul: well, they're planning this 24days project [20:19] saul: argh. [20:19] saul: biab. [20:19] zool: the espians *are* insane [20:19] zool: but doing really interesting stuff and i am looking forward to seeing tav and finding out quite what [20:19] zool: and i reckon you'd enjoy talkng to tav as wel, rgrp [20:19] zool: platform distribution stuff [20:19] zool: rights management even maybe?? [20:19] rgrp: i think i did briefly at wsfii where he told me about turbogears [20:20] rgrp: zool: please do post the list about geometa etc -- it sounds really interesting [20:21] zool: i have this whole plan to blog about it more in the context of the 4 principles of openess [20:21] rgrp: great :) [20:21] zool: plus hwo it is going t put om a big spurt soon [20:21] zool: yes i hope so :) [20:21] zool: saul is al distratced by gifts etc [20:21] rgrp: i really like the idea of the using oai-pmh stuff as well [20:21] zool: yes! [20:21] zool: h1 [20:22] rgrp: i've been looking at that in terms of biblio but it could be applied anywhere really [20:22] zool: this guy stefan keller is a real expert in thatdomain and has a lot of grad student slave energy [20:22] zool:      http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/Geodata_Metadata_Requirements#Guidelines_for_a_minimal_OAI-PMH_implementation [20:23] zool: anyway yes [20:23] zool: it's going to be a good project. [20:23] rgrp: *please*: post some of this to okfn-discuss or blog it .... [20:23] zool: and i'l try to keep what si going on with it connected to ckan [20:24] zool: i will - i have ben really backloged [20:24] rgrp: ok [20:24] zool: it's only been like the last day or two my brain has even started engaging with this again and suddenly it's a big rush of getting thigns done [20:24] rgrp: i'm starting to fade ... [20:24] saul: back [20:24] zool: nods i think we all are plus a party is starting to start here [20:24] rgrp: and just when the discussion is getting *really* interesting [20:24] zool:              :)          [20:24] zool: lol [20:24] saul: rgrp: I'll fill you in on the espian developments shortly [20:24] rgrp: great [20:24] zool: well we can make this a regular thing [20:25] saul: ++ [20:25] rgrp: yes shall we go for monthly? [20:25] saul: yep! [20:25] zool: yes [20:25] rgrp: ok i'll post on list [20:25] rgrp: great to talk with you guys and i'll leave 't-shirts' until next time :)