Meetings/2008-09-03

= Meeting 2008-09-03 =

Details

 * When: Wednesday 3rd September 2008 at 1900 BST (1800 GMT)
 * Where: #okfn irc channel on oftc.net (connect via Mibbit)

Participants

 * Jonathan Gray
 * Rufus Pollock
 * Iain Emsley
 * Rob Myers

Agenda
Please feel free to add anything you'd like to discuss to the agenda...


 * OKF events - including events in London this autumn and OKCon 2009
 * moving forward with CKAN
 * any open knowledge projects (including OKF projects)
 * Open Shakespeare/Milton etc.
 * re-designing the main OKF site;
 * an open knowledge competition?

Actions from last meeting

 * TODO: (rgrp) post to list about next ckan package party suggesting dates DONE
 * TODO: (sysadmin/rgrp): create ok-ox-discuss with iain + jwyg as administrator DONE
 * TODO: (rgrp) announce shakespeare hackathon to list DONE
 * TODO: (rgrp): create new MiniEvents page and (all) add stuff to it DONE
 * TODO: (jwyg) add ckan item to cofundos

Action

 * TODO: (jwyg) draft standard email re open shakespeare
 * TODO: (all) email relevant lists about OS/OM -- should probably coordinate this a bit
 * TODO: (jwyg) add ckan item to cofundos

IRC Log
(Time in CEST)

#!irc

20:14:12 	couple of things 20:14:37 	yep.. 20:14:39 	as a starter could i invite people to check out http://www.microfacts.org/ 20:15:10 	this is just about to get launched and i want to see if it breaks in anyone's browser 20:15:30 	(or everyone's ...) 20:15:46 	seems ok on Firefox 3 on Fedora 9 20:16:09 	Also I like the art facts, I wanted to ask about that kind of project. 20:16:25 	does all the js stuff work 20:16:32 	looks really nice! 20:16:34 	e.g. you can click on factlets in a thread and they change 20:16:34 	wow! 20:16:43 	see http://www.microfacts.org/thread/read/3 20:16:50 	once I put the exception in NoScript, yes. 20:16:52 	also does the geochrono view work 20:16:59 	:) 20:17:25 	map with marker is ok, yes 20:17:55 	editing doesn't seem to work yet? 20:18:06 	which map service is that? 20:18:19 	openlayers for the moment 20:18:36 	you can swap e.g. googlemaps in with a single line but we wanted to be fully open (at least while developing ...) 20:18:38 *	ipe (~chatzilla@78.147.182.89) has joined #okfn 20:19:16 	OSM stuff is ideal 20:19:18 	hey ipe 20:19:24 	Sorry, I'm late 20:19:40 	robmyers1: do you know how to use that with openlayers. 20:20:09 	while their data is great do you know a reliable service serving it because when i've used OSM qua site it has been pretty slow (at least at high res0 20:20:14 	ipe: np 20:20:51 	ipe: we're just looking at http://www.microfacts.org 20:21:57 	jwyb: thanks 20:21:58 	in particular http://www.microfacts.org/thread/read/3 20:22:54 	rgrp: hmm I don't know a good OSM server, I know one of the guys on the project has a company that uses the data. You could ask on the osm list? (I'm just on the legal list now). 20:23:00 	microfacts looks great 20:23:25 	rgrp: did it go live just now? 20:23:28 	I was going to ask about arts-related projects, and art/literary school timelines are a good example 20:24:00 	jwyg: no it hasn't gone officially live yet :) 20:24:07 	but i'm all for soft launches 20:24:15 	This would be fantastic for Shakespeare/Milton - when live :) 20:24:21 	it still needs quite a bit of work. e.g. factlet editing does not yet work 20:24:32 	however if you know json you can load data into it pretty easily 20:24:49 	there is also working code to basically dump the whole of wikipedia into it (via dbpedia) 20:24:52 	:) 20:25:06 	can i try creating a factlet? :-) 20:25:07 	Our next demo on there should definitely be a shakespeare one 20:25:14 	unfortunately not 20:25:25 	:-) 20:25:30 	factlet creation/editing is not functional (part of the reason is that it is thread creation which is the priority) 20:25:38 	assumed we would import the factlets 20:26:01 	I take it, its on knowledgeforge? Would be fun to explore 20:26:05 	cool 20:26:09 	raw data looks like: http://knowledgeforge.net/microfacts/trac/browser/trunk/microfacts/data/napoleon.js 20:26:12 	(as json) 20:26:34 	oh cool 20:26:54 	so some of that could be scripted to extract data from other sources? 20:27:01 	yes 20:27:18 	as i said we already have got to 'load' wikipedia into it as factlets via dbpedia 20:27:27 	http://knowledgeforge.net/microfacts/trac/browser/trunk/microfacts/getdata/dbpedia.py 20:27:28 	cool 20:27:56 	however we have only done demo runs e.g. with ww2 data 20:28:10 	unfortunately dbpedia code (and wikipedia itself) is a bit messy 20:28:22 	e.g. dates like mar 18-jun 16 1944 20:28:26 	which computers don't like 20:28:27 	have you been in touch with soeren? 20:28:32 	no, not yet 20:29:04 	i'm not sure what they'd do about it (it is prob down to source ..) 20:29:45 	hmm... 20:29:47 	true.. 20:30:39 	one nice arty thing to do would be to have a timeline/geo view with indications of magnitude 20:30:48 	for example one could make the symbols larger or smaller 20:30:58 	I also thgouth it would fun to animate the map using the timeline 20:31:05 	ie. as you scroll the timeline the map changes ... 20:31:20 	these would both be neat for the original motivating use case: battles 20:31:28 	military campaigns etc 20:31:40 	yes that would be good 20:31:42 	definitely 20:31:51 	That could be done with JS I think - ie changing image size 20:32:10 	showing things moving on the map through time would be great.. 20:32:25 	there are JS animation libraries available that could be used for that. 20:32:30 	Timeline. Not seen the source code but again AJAX? 20:32:42 	ipe: timeline is via the simile project 20:33:07 	however hooking that together with the map so the two interact etc (and get data from backend) is indeed AJAX (or AJAJ as we use JSON) 20:33:48 	btw anyone who wants to contribute can grab the source from http://knowledgeforge.net/microfacts/svn/ 20:35:55 	anyways ... 20:36:03 	i don't know if this could be useful.. http://www.mkbergman.com/?p=417 20:36:55 	(re: grabbing stuff from wikipedia..) 20:36:59 	possibly tangential :-) 20:37:17 	Interesting though :) 20:38:02 	jwyg: dbpedia and freebase have already done it so i'm not planning to reinvent the wheel there, just grab from them 20:38:06 	:) 20:38:08 	true :-) 20:38:23 	anyhow.. microfacts looks great.. 20:38:54 	were we going to have a quick catch-up about open shakespeare? 20:38:59 	Presumably you could alter the JS calls for the time frame? 20:39:12 	I'll take a look at source code when hands free! 20:39:15 	milton/literature :-) 20:39:25 	yep 20:39:46 	yes, we've been discussing some major refactoring 20:40:05 	plus we still need a couple of volunteers to take a page or two each so we can finish the proofing to the EB stuff 20:40:23 	http://okfn.org/wiki/tmp/BritannicaShakespeare/3 20:40:32 	*raises hand* 20:40:55 	On ancillary material, the lead I was following on Open Archives a sort of bust 20:40:59 	i've been meaning to do a bit more of this.. 20:41:15 	ipe: what do you mean? 20:41:17 	Following another one using Open Access 20:41:48 	yeah.. 20:41:54 	Archives/abstracts free - claims Scholarly/Digital commons but proquest digitised 20:42:11 	so you mean non-open/free 20:42:16 	Proquest, I believe, behind Hansard and trapped 20:42:22 	Very 20:42:59 	well.. 20:43:07 	I spent an hour or so trying so hence I'll try the open access way in the next few days 20:43:29 	you mentioned you contacted someone at archive.org? 20:43:34 	what kind of ancillary material were you looking for 20:43:49 	Never heard back from archive :( 20:44:11 	Looking for any articles, video, text via openarchives.eu 20:44:19 	they're pretty busy.. 20:44:41 	Its why I haven't followed up yet 20:45:31 	It was also a general email. Might have another way to get some data but need to read it properly 20:46:03 	in terms of the refactoring i was thinking of something along the lines: 20:46:19 	for python packages 20:46:26 	shakespeare -> openlit 20:46:44 	shksprdata stays as it is or is renamed to shakespeare 20:46:49 	?Make openlit the core 20:47:00 	miltondata stays as is or becomes milton 20:47:00 	ipe: yes 20:47:18 	btw: as an aside can i remove the milton directory beside trunk? 20:47:18 	Please do! 20:47:19 	ok.. 20:48:16 	jwyg: this might be getting a bit technical ;) 20:48:38 	heh 20:48:51 	no problem :-) 20:49:16 	doing whois for variants of 'open literature' 20:49:19 	robmyers1: you had some stuff you wanted to bring up 20:49:27 	openliterature.net is available -- i already checked 20:49:32 	at least i think 20:49:50 	yep.. looks like it.. 20:49:57 	perhaps we should pounce :-) 20:50:11 *	paulproteus has quit (Remote host closed the connection) 20:50:27 	yes. 1. I am trying out datapkg, where can I ask questions about it? 20:50:50 	and 2. Is there any interest in a visual arts (or art history) equivalent to OpenShakespeare? 20:50:51 	okfn-help? 20:50:54 *	mbarkhau has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 20:51:00 	Why not? 20:51:02 	ipe: is that on this server? 20:51:24 	robmyers1: yes of course 20:51:30 	cool that someone is using it already 20:51:40 	rob: i've been interested in doing stuff related to pd images for a while 20:52:00 	could we do e.g. openarthistory.org 20:52:00 	A friend asked if we could import non-English language into it? His was curiosity talking but... 20:52:26 	ipe: why not we are default unicode/utf8 ... 20:52:37 	art - Well I was trying to think of something knowledgy. Leonardo's sketchbooks would be ideal but 1. I don't speak Italian and 2. they seem surprisingly well protected. ;-) 20:52:58 	i think that kind of stuff would be great 20:52:59 	art - So easily reproduced work with good relevence would perhaps be Hogarth. 20:53:01 	rgrp: That's what I thought. 20:53:52 	robmyers1: that's would be great - hogarth has a good amount of social context too ... 20:54:02 	yes. and ties in to the literary 20:54:13 	also prints are easier to fins & scan ;-) 20:54:18 	Hogarth would be excellent in so many ways 20:54:21 	sounds great! 20:54:30 	kewl 20:54:33 	All the better then 20:54:50 	OK so I'll see what I can track down 20:55:47 	How should I present Milton/Shakespeare - as coming to you as open Lit? 20:56:01 	ipe: ? 20:56:29 	Bristol on Friday - Knowledge Unconference 20:56:50 	I'll talk about the OKD but the main in Milton/Shakespeare 20:57:06 	ipe: ok, now i get you 20:57:24 	rgrp: sorry, skipping ahead again 20:57:27 	i think the best way would be to demo OS as it is (either live or from your local install) 20:57:59 	i think it would be good to emphasize the 'Why Open Shakespeare' section of http://www.openshakespeare.org/ 20:58:17 	then this leads naturally into Open Milton 20:58:18 	i was just about to say :-) 20:58:26 	I've got a version (I think before the sqlalchemy refactor) on my laptop 20:58:28 	this then leads naturally into 'generalizatoin' 20:58:43 	if you ahve web may be easier to run live since everything si set up :) 20:58:48 	Indeed it does - I've only got 15 minutes 20:58:54 	Should do 20:58:59 	and the possibility of lots of different tools, etc. 20:59:12 	so I'd say 5 mins intro + OS demo 20:59:24 	5 mins on OM 20:59:30 	5 mins on generalization + conclusion 20:59:59 	key point is that we want 'packages' not 'websites' 21:00:01 	I was going to use OM as package idea to show how folks can use it 21:00:07 	website there to show off the package not to be the package 21:00:12 	Indeed 21:00:13 	exactly that would be perfect 21:00:26 	maybe you should even start with OM 21:00:36 	it is a really nice story about the anniversary etc 21:00:44 	jwyg: I'll take my notebook and cards to get names as well 21:00:49 	:-) 21:00:58 	rgrp: can't forget the anniversary 21:01:26 	Looks like an interesting Milton list on jiscmail- will mail as wel 21:01:31 	would it be nice to have a few images for OM for launch? 21:01:40 	cool! 21:01:48 	did you email any lists about os? 21:02:06 	Shakespeare quieter. 21:02:24 	Not yet but sidetracked by deadlines 21:02:45 	we should also post about OS to olpc lists... 21:02:51 	JISCmail quieter on that. 21:03:05 	Yes, yes, yes... 21:03:15 	yes it would be great for OLPC 21:03:18 	there's a ticket: http://knowledgeforge.net/shakespeare/trac/ticket/28 21:03:35 	i know.. 21:03:41 	thats for me :-) 21:03:44 	perhaps we should draft some kind of standard email on the wiki and then people can use that as the basis for contacting 21:03:55 	it would be good to share out the contacting :) 21:03:56 	We should do that 21:04:00 	action me :-) 21:04:07 	poor old ipe has got enough :) 21:04:19 *	paulproteus (~paulprote@wide-rose.makesad.us) has joined #okfn 21:04:30 	todo: jwyg draft standard email re open shakespeare 21:04:32 	heya paulproteus 21:04:55 	todo: (all) email relevant lists about OS/OM -- should probably coordinate this a bit 21:05:34 	great! 21:05:42 	Howdy robmyers1! 21:05:43 	if ipe takes the jisc lists what about jwyg takes olpc 21:05:45 	we could put a list of places contacted by draft email 21:05:58 	there is also shaksper: http://www.shaksper.net/ 21:06:10 	jwyg: sounds good (let's put that draft on the main okfn wiki) 21:06:24 	e.g. http://okfn.org/wiki/okcon2008/material 21:06:38 	yep great 21:06:42 	yes but even simpler :) 21:07:11 	gee whiz the wiki is so big 21:08:02 	is there a shakespeare page on the wiki? 21:08:13 	i should spend a bit of time consolidating project pages.. 21:08:22 	set up a project page for that ;-) 21:08:47 	perhaps i'll create a page for openlit like http://okfn.org/wiki/ckan ? 21:08:51 	right, gottago. Will think about Hogarth & pester about datapkg 21:08:56 	great! 21:08:58 	[idling] 21:09:10 	jwyg: no, but take a look at the stuff under http://okfn.org/wiki/projects 21:09:28 	There's a page at: http://www.okfn.org/shakespeare/ 21:09:32 	jwyg: there's more important things for the mo :) 21:09:42 	ipe: yep 21:09:49 	nods :-) 21:10:02 	that's the official page, rarely updated, privileged access so it does not get spammed etc 21:10:08 	but can have pages on teh wiki too 21:10:28 	btw main website stuff can go in: http://okfn.org/wiki/WebsiteTasks 21:10:44 	robmyers1: good to see you and sounds great 21:10:56 	robmyers1: please do ask about datapkg 21:11:12 	i wrote most of it so should be able to help 21:11:19 	plus we are about to release it properly ... 21:11:23 	(another release!) 21:13:22 	great news.. 21:14:18 	ok, shall we call it a day